Jaakko Hyvätti Picprog 1.8.1 documentation
PIC16 and PIC18 microcontroller programmer for Linux and Windows/Cygwin.
Translations of some version of this document: Dutch
- Background reading
- Burning PICs
- Reading PICs
- Exit values
- Other available programmers
- Available languages
- Other software
- Copyright notice
PICmicro microcontrollers, or MCUs, are fine chips that are especially
easy to program with a simple device attached to a parallel or serial
port. Because of the EEPROM or Flash memory, they are also easy and
fast to erase and reprogram without need for UV equipment. This makes
them very popular among electronics hobbyists.
At the moment this is the second implementation of a PIC programmer
for Linux that works with the very simple and cheap serial port
programmers. The first one I know was made by Ralph Metzler in 1996. My
programmer was originally designed for PIC16C84 and PIC16F84 chips
back in 1997, and since then I have implemented other chips without
access to most of them. I have tested PIC16F628, PIC16F676,
PIC12F675, PIC16F88, PIC16F876A, PIC16F76, PIC18F1320 and PIC18F458.
Others have used many other models. The dsPIC30 family has some code
in the sources, but the support is not finished yet.
You really should take a look at the Microchip www-pages and read the
device datasheets and programming specifications there.
Maybe the best source for PIC information is the home page of PICLIST discussion
group. Also historically a good collection of links and software for
PIC was in David Tait's
PIC links page and in GNUPIC
pages. I have also documented here the software I took a look at back
in 1997. I have focused into Linux support, so I have never used
any DOS software mentioned.
Use a serial port programmer device with the following pinouts:
- Serial port pic programming hardware
- See the hardware section. This device is connected to a usual
serial port of your PC, and is the same device as used with many DOS
PIC burning programs.
- C++ compiler (g++)
- This program is written in C++, so you need a C++ compiler to
compile it. This you should already have installed on your Linux
system or Windows/Cygwin system.
- Linux kernel version 2.0.32 or 2.1.45 or later.
- This programmer needs some functionality in Linux serial driver
that as of kernel versions 2.0.32 and 2.1.45 is available in standard
kernels. The programmer uses TIOCSBRK and TIOCCBRK ioctl to control
the state of TxD serial port output accurately. These ioctl's are
standard on BSD flavor unixes, like SunOS 4, but they still are
unimplemented on many serial drivers in Linux kernel. Only the
standard serial port is known to work by me.
- Cygwin DLL version 1.5.8 or later
- (For Windows installations only) Earlier Cygwin versions do not
contain the necessary TIOCSBRK and TIOCCBRK ioctl functionality.
- A compiler for PIC
- Your assembler, or C compiler, or whatever, should produce either
Intel IHX32, IHX16, or IHX8M format hex files. For assembler on Linux I
recommend GNU PIC
A good programmer like this is for example PIC-Programmer 2
designed by Jens Madsen.
Some later chips with internal oscillator modes may need a bit more
complicated designs or the reprogramming of the chips can be
unreliable. See JDM-B: JDM Programmer
Modification: Automatic Vcc Control or RCD programmer.
I have heard that other programmers work also, for example TE20
and Olimex PG2C have been tested
- Programming voltage, pin /MCLR
- Clock pulse, pin RB6
- DTR (output), CTS (input)
- Serial data, pin RB7
The description below is based on old version of JDM hardware. As you
can see above, there are better designs by Jens Madsen and others
available, please use them instead. Note however that for example the
latest Jens Madsen PCB does not support PIC16F628A that needs to have
pin 10, RB4/PGM grounded. Please modify the PCB to ground this pin if
your chip has PGM on pin 10.
I made a minor modification to the jdm84v23 schema and pcb mask,
because I thought D4 was stressed on positive clock pulses - it short
circuits the rs-232 RTS pin to GND. I added a 10k resistor between D4
and D3. But it also is not absolutely required, as the clock pulses
are short and rs-232 is protected for short circuits anyway. Now I
have noticed that this resistor makes the programmer less reliable,
especially with later PIC chips, like PIC16F76 and PIC18 family. If
you have built the hardware I previously suggested, and it does not
work, please short circuit that resistor or build the new PCB from
Jens Madsen site. Also you can try this patch by Matthijs Kooijman to
test the levels of signals: picprog-slow-test.diff
To support for example PIC16F628 and PIC16F88, which have a low
voltage programming mode, the circuit was again modified to ground the
RB3 pin 9 and the RB4 pin 10. This prevents the chip from entering
the low voltage programming mode. To support for example PIC12F675,
PIC16F630, and PIC16F676, pin 1 was connected to Vdd. Other jumpers
need to be installed as described below.
The schemantics diagram:
The 300 dpi pcb mask:
To support for example PIC16F876A and 16F76, which have different
pinouts for programming signals, you need an adapter that connects to
the external connector of the above programmer. Alternatively you
could redesign the pcb layout, but maybe it is easier to just solder
the adaptor. Solder the pins like this:
pcb 1 -- clk -- 27 (RB6) ic
connector 3 -- data -- 28 (RB7) socket
5 -- Vss -- 8,19,24
7 -- Vdd -- 20
9 -- Vpp -- 1
To support for example PIC12F675, PIC16F630 and PIC16F676, which have
different pinouts for programming signals but do not conflict with
PIC16C84 pins, you can solder jumper wires on the above pcb. You need
to connect pin 16 on the socket to clock (same as pin 12), pin 17 to
data (same as pins 11 and 13), and pin 18 on the socket to Vss (same
as pins 5-10). Note that pin 1 is already connected to Vdd in the
above PCB mask. If this connection is missing on your older PCB,
connect pin 1 to pin 14 with a wire.
Always check the correct pinouts for your chip from the datasheets
There are binary packages available that have been prepared by helpful
users and operating system vendors. I know of the following, but
cannot offer any support for them. They might be for older versions,
but even if they are, check for the 10. Changes
section below if you really need a later version. Some new versions
of Picprog only fix small specific bug, which may not affect you at
To install from source, download the picprog-1.8.1.tar.gz
package, if you do not already have it.
Check your system against the requirements mentioned above.
Untar the archive and change to the source file directory. You should
only have to type:
and the program should compile without errors or warnings. If it does
not, please check that your compiler, c and c++ libraries and
utilities like make are of a reasonably recent, bugfree and compatible
After compilation you can, as a root user, just type:
to install the program and manual page to /usr/local. Or just copy
Make sure that you have access to the serial port device like /dev/ttyS0
or /dev/ttyS1 with the user that you are running the program as.
The Linux emulator for Windows, Cygwin, allows Picprog to be
compiled on Windows plattforms.
To install Cygwin, go to www.cygwin.com and follow the
instructions there. In short, download setup.exe and run it. You
need to install at least the Developer packages Gcc C compiler, Gcc
C++ compiler, Make, and Binutils in addition to the default install.
To install Picprog on Cygwin, follow the above instructions for Linux compilation from source.
Windows 2000 installations that I have tried work fine. Windows 98
installations worked sometimes, and I suppose the timing routines of
Picprog do not work well on Windows 98, they even lock the computer
sometimes. I suggest using Windows 2000 or later.
To get information about the usage of the program, just type the
program name. These options give information about the program:
The actual operation of the program is controlled by the options
- Display warranty or copyright information or the help text
with list of supported chip types.
- Do not display the copyright notice.
the former is present, the program acts as a burner. If the
latter is specified, the program will read the contents of the PIC
device eeprom memories. Both may be specified on the same command
line, in which case the chip is first programmed and then read.
The burning options are:
- Compile your program into a hex file.
- Insert the pic16c84 or other pic chip into the socket in the
programmer, or connect the in-circuit programming cable to your
- Connect the programmer device to a serial port.
- If the device contains calibration information, like OSCCAL word
in program memory or BG bits in configuration word in PIC12F675, it is
a good idea to save these for later if this is the first time you
program the chip. See next chapter for more on
reading chip, but this should be enough for saving the calibration:
picprog --output saved-cal-chip1.hex --skip-ones --pic /dev/ttyS1
- Burn the program with command:
picprog --burn --input file.hex --pic /dev/ttyS1
- If the above command produces error output that suggests that the
chip was in the code protection state, or that the chip must be
completely erased before programming, retry with the following
picprog --erase --burn --input file.hex --pic /dev/ttyS1
- Wait for the program to complete. Burning 8192 program locations
on 14 bit devices may take 3 minutes. I know better programming
algorithms would speed this up significantly, but I have not had time
to fix that. PIC18 family programming algorithm is significantly
The hex file addresses (in IHX16 format) used are the ones specified
by Microchip. This example is for pic16f628:
- To be able to reprogram a PIC device that has previously been
programmed into Code Protection state (for example in pic16c84 Control
Word fuse bit 0x10 cleared), it is necessary to bulk erase the chip.
Also some PIC devices do not automatically erase each location as they
are programmed, and these devices must always be bulk erased first.
It is done by adding this option to the command line. The default is
not to bulk erase the chip.
- Actually program the device. Without this option only the syntax
of input files and command line options is checked.
- Specifies the input hex file. The file can be either in IHX32,
IHX16, or IHX8M formats, the format is automatically recognized.
- Only necessary for debugging. Outputs the same data as was read
from the input hex file.
- Force reprogramming the OSCCAL word and BG bits in control word.
Default is to read the calibration values off the chip before erasing
and preserving their values. Use this option if you have accidentally
erased the values on chip, and you reprogram them from your saved copy
which was read off the chip before the values were lost there. In
general it is a really good idea to first read the empty chip and save
the file somewhere if the calibration data gets lost later, either by
accident or because of some bug in Picprog.
- The device name of the serial port the programmer is connected
to. Default is
- The chip type. Currently supported by code are:
auto, pic16c84, pic16cr83, pic16cr84, pic16f83, pic16f84, pic16f84a*,
pic16f87*, pic16f88*, pic16c61, pic16c62, pic16c62a, pic16c62b,
pic16c63, pic16c63a, pic16c64, pic16c64a, pic16c65, pic16c65a,
pic16c65b, pic16c66, pic16c66a, pic16c67, pic16cr62, pic16cr63,
pic16cr64, pic16cr65, pic16c620, pic16c620a, pic16cr620a, pic16c621,
pic16c621a, pic16c622, pic16c622a, pic16f627*, pic16f627a*,
pic16f628*, pic16f628a*, pic16f648a*, pic16ce623, pic16ce624,
pic16ce625, pic16c641, pic16c642, pic16c661, pic16c662, pic16c71,
pic16c710, pic16c711, pic16c712, pic16c715, pic16c716, pic16c717,
pic16c72, pic16c72a, pic16cr72, pic16c73, pic16c73a, pic16c73b,
pic16c74, pic16c74a, pic16c74b, pic16c76, pic16c77, pic16f72*,
pic16f73*, pic16f74*, pic16f76*, pic16f77*, pic16c432, pic16c433,
pic16c781, pic16c782, pic16c745, pic16c765, pic16c770, pic16c771,
pic16c773, pic16c774, pic16f870*, pic16f871*, pic16f872*, pic16f873*,
pic16f873a*, pic16f874*, pic16f874a*, pic16f876*, pic16f876a*,
pic16f877*, pic16f877a*, pic16f818*, pic16f819*, pic16c923, pic16c924,
pic16f630*, pic16f676*, pic12c508, pic12c508a, pic12ce518, pic12c509,
pic12c509a, pic12ce519, pic12cr509a, pic12c671*, pic12c672,
pic12ce673, pic12ce674, pic12f629*, pic12f675*, pic16c505, pic18f242*,
pic18f248*, pic18f252*, pic18f258*, pic18f442*, pic18f448*,
pic18f452*, pic18f458*, pic18f1220*, pic18f2220*, pic18f4220*,
pic18f1320*, pic18f2320*, pic18f4320*, pic18f6520*, pic18f6620*,
pic18f6720*, pic18f8520*, pic18f8620*, pic18f8720*, pic18f6585*,
pic18f8585*, pic18f6680*, pic18f8680*, pic18f2515*, pic18f2525*,
pic18f2585*, pic18f4515*, pic18f4525*, pic18f4585*, pic18f2610*,
pic18f2620*, pic18f2680*, pic18f4610*, pic18f4620*, pic18f4680*,
pic18f6525*, pic18f6621*, pic18f8525*, pic18f8621*, pic18f2439*,
pic18f2539*, pic18f4439*, pic18f4539*, pic18f2331*, pic18f2431*,
pic18f4331*, pic18f4431*, pic18f2221*, pic18f2321*, pic18f2410*,
pic18f2420*, pic18f2450*, pic18f2455*, pic18f2480*, pic18f2510*,
pic18f2515*, pic18f2520*, pic18f2525*, pic18f2550*, pic18f2580*,
pic18f2585*, pic18f2610*, pic18f2620*, pic18f2680*, pic18f4221*,
pic18f4321*, pic18f4410*, pic18f4420*, pic18f4450*, pic18f4455*,
pic18f4480*, pic18f4510*, pic18f4515*, pic18f4520*, pic18f4525*,
pic18f4550*, pic18f4580*, pic18f4585*, pic18f4610*, pic18f4620*,
pic18f4680*, pic18c242, pic18c252, pic18c442, pic18c452, pic18c658,
The devices marked with a star (*) can be autodetected, so they need
not to be specified. If code protection is active on the chip,
autodetection may not work.
I do not know if all the chips work or if any other than pic16c84,
pic12f675, pic16f676, pic16f76, pic16f88, pic16f876a, pic16f628,
pic18f1320, and pic18f458 work, these I have tested myself. Default
is to autodetect the device by reading configuration memory location
0x2006. If no device id is present, the default is
pic16c84. If reading location 0x2006 with 14 bit
programming algorithm fails, the PIC18 programming algorithm is used
to read configuration memory locations 0x3ffffe and 0x3fffff. To add
a new supported chip type, just edit the table in file
The addresses in IHX32 and IHX8M files are not word addresses but byte
addresses. Divide those addresses by 2 and you get the same addresses
as in the example above.
- Program memory, 2048 words * 14 bits.
- ID locations.
- Device id (not present on older chips), not present in hex file
- Control word fuses
- Data memory, 128 bytes * 8 bits.
This example is for pic18f1320. These addresses are byte addresses.
IHX32 is the only option for saving PIC18 family programs in hex
- Program memory, 8192 bytes of 8 bits, or 4096 words of 16 bits.
- ID locations.
- Device id, not present in hex file
- Control word fuses
- Data memory, 256 bytes * 8 bits.
Before interfacing with the PIC chip, Picprog calibrates its delay
loops by checking the clock speed of the CPU and whether the CPU
supports the TSC feature. On Linux, /proc/cpuinfo is read. On
Windows/Cygwin, /proc/cpuinfo is read and CPU clock frequency is
estimated. Therefore the clock frequency displayed on Windows is not
necessarily exactly the true clock frequency.
Long cables, different values on capacitors and resistors, and
differences on sertial ports can cause very long signal rise and fall
times. The JDM device is sensitive to that, and mostly is designed to
be connected directly to computer or with very short cable. The
sensitivity also depends on the PIC chip type. It may help to stretch
the delays in Picprog to allow for longer signal settling times. For
example this patch by Werner Almesberger,
and this one by Matthijs Kooijman:
gives good example on how to accomodate longer delays.
Larger delays are needed also for
The reading options are:
- Insert the PIC chip into the socket in the
programmer, or connect the in-circuit programming cable to your
- Connect the programmer device to a serial port.
- Read the device with command:
picprog --output ofile.hex --pic /dev/ttyS1
Exit values are as defined in <sysexits.h>:
- Specifies the output hex file. The file will be written in IHX16
format, unless otherwise specified by the
--ihx32 options. For PIC18 family devices, file will
be written in IHX32 format.
- When reading the PIC device, do not consider the all-ones memory
locations to be programmed, and skip them in the hex file output. For
14 bit devices, this skips the program memory locations that have hex
value 0x3FFF, and for PIC18 family devices, this skips byte values
0xFF. In data memory locations that have hex value 0xFF are skipped.
- Select the output hex file format to be either ihx16 or ihx8m,
respectively. The default is ihx32 for PIC18 family devices and ihx16
- The device name of the serial port the programmer is connected
to. Default is
Source files and their contents:
- EX_OK, 0
- no error
- EX_USAGE, 64
- command line option syntax error
- EX_IOERR, 74
- file or serial port io error, or after-programming verification failed
- EX_DATAERR, 65
- input file syntax error, not in IHX8M, IHX16, or IHX32 format
- EX_NOINPUT, 66
- unable to find input file or file open failed
- EX_UNAVAILABLE, 69
- user or signal interrupted programming
- EX_PROTOCOL, 76
- the device is unknown to the programmer
- picport.cc, .h
- class picport: manipulates the serial port hardware. With this
class you can execute programming commands like read a word, program a
word, increment address etc. Look at picport.h for details.
- hexfile.cc, .h
- class hexfile: contains a PIC memory image. You can load and
save the contents of this class to a file, and you can program and
read it from the PIC chip. Programming uses class picport.
- program.cc, h
- class program: just some generic option handling.
- Just the main () to parse command line and call class hexfile to
do its job.
This document has not changed much since it was first released with
the 1.0 programmer. The changes include some information about new
software and more accurate links to PIC information. New options
to select type of device other than pic18c84 are also present.
2003-08-10 version 1.2
With help from Taneli Kalvas changed the schemantics diagram and pcb
mask to ground the RB4 pin, selecting high voltage programming on for
Implemented preservation of OSCCAL and other calibration data.
Added automatic detection of devices based on location 0x2006.
Merged Bart Goossens's changes to implement PIC16F73. I hope it works.
2003-08-21 version 1.3
Autodetect more chips. Fix programming of chips with OSCCAL. Fix
erasing some chips - erasing and resetting code protection is now
performed the hard way: all methods are tried regardless of chip type.
--erase now works also without
2004-01-02 version 1.4
--force-calibration to program OSCCAL and BG
bits. Implement programming algorithms for 16f87/16f88 and 16f87Xa.
Revise some timings on programmer reset to avoid operating voltage to
dip. More verbose output on how many locations actually were burned.
2004-03-02 version 1.5
Fix PIC16F87xA configuration word burning. Remove the 10k resistor
added by me from the PCB and schema. Add support for PIC18 family.
Make the DTR be held low as long as possible. This may improve the
reliability and limit stress on RS-232 port.
2004-03-19 version 1.6
Now compiles on Windows with Cygwin DLL version 1.5.8 and later. More
accurate timings result in shorter programming times compared to
previous versions. These timings use the CPU RDTSC instruction on x86
and AMD64 plattforms. PIC16F87/88 second configuration word
2004-04-28 version 1.7
Fixed 16c OTP and UV erased parts EPROM programming to use 100µs
programming/overprogramming pulses. Use real time priorities and
nanosleep() for delays if run under root priviledges. Relax timings
so that they work out of the box with longer cables. Fixed PIC12F629
/ PIC12F675 / PIC16F627a / PIC16F628a / PIC16F648a / PIC16F630 /
PIC16F676 programming with >1.3GHz i386 CPU.
2006-03-05 version 1.8
Experimental dsPIC support, never tested, just compiled. Disabled the
real time priorities, the nanosleep function does not work any more in
Linux 2.6 kernels as it used to. Exit value 76 added to indicate
unsupported chip id. Added more PIC18F models, thanks to Jan Wagemakers from Belgium.
2006-03-26 version 1.8.1
Fix a mistake with 18f55 and 18f60. Thanks to
Jan Wagemakers for the fix.
- PiKdev is a simple graphic IDE for the development of PIC-based
applications. PiKdev is developed in C++ under Linux and is based on
the KDE environment. It includes a programming engine which allows
programming various flavors of PIC microcontrollers via classic (ie:
D. Tait or JDM compatible) programming hardware connected to the
parallel port or to the serial port.
- Linux and Windows programming software that knows about 83 pic's
and 6 programmers.
- Programmer software written in Python by Wouter van Ooijen.
- A serial port programmer software for Linux, written in c++,
author Ralph Metzler. It
directly handles the serial hardware, standard 16450/16550 compatible
uarts, and needs root priviledges for that. Unmaintained since 1996.
- jdm84v23 (jdm84v23.zip, pgm84v23.zip)
- A serial port programmer, schema
(gif) and DOS software. The hardware manages with rs-232
interfaces with low voltage output, even as low as ±7V is fine.
This is the programmer I use with linux with my own software.
I modified the circuit to include connections to pins that are
needed for programming some PIC microcontrollers.
There is a new version of the PCB available on Jens Madsen site. It
supports more chips without jumper wires: PIC-Programmer 2.
A serial port programmer, stripped down version of the JDM device.
Works with Picprog but needs patching first with picprog-1.7-werner-almesberger.diff.
- pip-02/com84 (pip-02.zip)
- A serial port programmer, schema (gif)
and DOS software. Needs +12V rs-232 positive voltage level.
- A parallel and serial port programmer, and software for Linux and
dos, written by Wim
Lewis and Frank
Damgaard. There is some experimental code for an USB parallel
- dvtait84, pic84faq
- A parallel port programmer, schema
(ascii) and DOS software with basic and turbo-C sources included.
Tait. He has a lot more stuff, and some new designs to program
other PICs in his links page.
- mjcox84 (mjcox84.zip)
- A parallel port programmer, no schema, written in assembler for
DOS with 486/33 timings. Very limited. Author: Mark J Cox, firstname.lastname@example.org.
- A parallel port programmer and disassembler, no schema, seems to
use pins DATA1 = data and DATA2 = clock and needs external programming
voltage. From Everyday Practical Electronics, February 1996, author
Derren Crome. Disassembler by Nigel Goodwin email@example.com.
- Parallel port programmer, DOS software, needs external 13V power
source. Author Stephen M. Nolan.
- GNU PIC Utilities
gputils have assembler, linker, disassembler and library utilities
much like MPASM. They support all PICs.
- A graphical development environment for PIC16F84 by Mark
Colclough at the University of Birmingham. Yappa combines into a
single application the editor, assembler and programmer interface that
are needed to program a PIC. Picprog is used as the programmer
- Assembler in ANSI-C by Timo
Rossi. Outputs both IHX16 and IHX8M. You can
also find disassemblers for 12 bit and 14 bit PIC's on Timo's site.
- Assembler in ANSI-C by James Cleverdon, firstname.lastname@example.org. No INCLUDE,
no IF, outputs IHX8M. The
- I have heard of free SIL language (something like Pascal/M2)
compiler for PIC.
- Just Another Language, a
Pascal like high level language. "... I wanted a HLL which is better
mached to the PIC architecture, to my programming habits, and which I
could explain to the kids of the local electronics club without giving
a full course on computer architecture."
- HI-TECH Software C compiler
- A demo is available of their compiler.
- CoreChart (formerly named bitset) is an icon-based development
tool. 30-day trial available.
- PIC simulator.
Picprog was first written and released in May 1997. Around that
time I briefly experimented with microcontrollers. I found no Linux
software for the cheap serial programmer hardware by Jens Madsen, and
I wanted to use that one as it was so simple to build. Only later did
I learn about serp-0.5. Anyway, that one directly programmed PC style
serial port hardware while I wanted to use standard UNIX methods of
accessing serial ports. Linux was missing an IOCTL to force BREAK
condition (steady +12V) on the serial data transmit line. This kind
of functionality existed for example in Solaris. No problem, I
created a patch for Linux kernel versions 2.0.30 and 2.1.42, submitted
it, and it was included in mainline kernel versions 2.0.32 and
Since the time I first wrote the software I did not work with
microcontrollers at all for years, though I maintained Picprog by
fixing obvious compilation problems and updating documentation.
Version 1.0.1 was put together in May 2001 and included mainly
documentation fixes. In June 1997 I had worked on adding support for
different memory sizes of different PIC chips, and these changes and
again documentation updates were released as version 1.1 in February
2002. I also found the programmer hardware I thought I lost a few
years back, and was able test that it still works.
Picprog-1.0 was ported to FreeBSD and included in the distribution
around September 1999. MIT
MASLab 6.186, a student-run robotics course, seems to have used it
since January 2001. Recently this documentation page has attracted
steadily over 1000 visits per month, so I guess someone is finding
Nowadays I mostly test Picprog with new chips, and sometimes I start a
new project like KanSat
satellite or 8-PIN
PONG, and never finish them..
This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License version 2 as
published by the Free Software Foundation.
This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation,
Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.
The author may be contacted at:
Please send any suggestions, bug reports, success stories etc. to the
Email address above. To avoid my spam filters, please put the word
'picprog' somewhere on the subject line.
Jaakko Hyvätti/Jaakko.Hyvatti@iki.fi/+358 40 5011222